Freedom of speech?

[momckee]

Thanks Dan, for your input, better I should just be an observer and try to stay calm!

[Dan M.]

I think part of the trouble is the reluctance to go out on a limb, morally and legally, and say and further more prove that someone is mentally disturbed enough to be denied possession of firearms. I don't think anybody in the country is against keeping guns away from crazy people. I'm certainly not. But that all takes time and money and the mental health system is overloaded with the cases they have as it is. Donald Trump talks about draining the Washington swamp, but the mental health swamp in this country is immensely more vast and frightening, and groups like the ACLU are ready to defend against people being categorized in such a way that would possibly lead to them losing any of their rights or freedoms, even if you leave guns out of the picture.

Don't misread me, I'm not saying that there aren't things that might help. Enforcing laws that require better record keeping and reporting of people with mental health issues for starters. Universal background checks sound great (I'm not against them) and a national standard met by all states might help, but if somebody is under the radar, like the guy in Vegas, that won't stop them either, and it's too late when we find out he's a problem.

30 years ago, there were shooting clubs in high schools, kids brought their rifles to school to shoot at school ranges or to go hunting after school got out, and nobody thought anything of it. Guns were easy to get back then, much easier than now in most states. Nowhere in the US is it easier to get guns now than it was 30 years ago. What has changed in 30 years that we now have these types of shootings so frequently?

A mandatory US gun buyback like England or Australia would lead to civil war. There are gun owners (not me) who would protect their guns as vehemently as the South tried to protect their rights to keep slavery. It might come to that though. I hope not.

Oh, and that 18 school shooting in 2018 number is cobbled together like Frankenstein's monster, a bunch of parts and pieces that don't belong together. It includes stuff like a somebody committing suicide in a school parking lot at 2 in the morning, etc. If you Google it you can find out the breakdown of shooting that make up that number of 18 so far this year.

[momckee]

4A - I don't agree that guns don't kill people, that is their purpose, to kill or to wound, otherwise there wouldn't be this huge gun industry. People do get killed when run over or knocked down by a car but cars are not manufactured for that purpose. I just can't get my head around everyone, or not everyone, wanting a gun, how often is that gun used to protect its owner or does it stay in the lock box in the house just in case or gets carelessly stored and some youngster gets in and shoots it accidentally. It's all very well saying that you can't restrict gun ownership because you are taking someone's constitutional right away to own one, but heavens alive, the constitution didn't come down from the mountains in tablet form, it can be amended. Apparently at the moment you can't take away a person's right to have a gun even if they are mentally unstable unless vetted by a judge so even if you know someone is totally round the bend there is little that can be done about preventing them from having a firearm unless you can get a Judge to say they are unfit to own one. If I have that wrong please correct it, but that is my understanding of a US citizen's constitutional right to own a firearm and I think there are a lot of crazies out there.

As you can tell I am really disturbed about this, just seeing those kids running out of the school and then hearing that 17 people died is just heartbreaking, just the way all the other mass shootings have been.

[4AMNTN]

Mo. I read last night that there have been 18 school shootings this year in the US. It IS very sad. I don't see blaming the guns though. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Home? Shouldn't something like this "training" start at home? Because we see that anything can be used: cars! We can't take the cars away. How & when did this kid? get a gun anyway? some times, there are just "misguided" folks out there.
Of course I have a gun ... grew up where I don't think anything is wrong with gun ownership. BUT... I DO see something wrong with women covering up, being abused, having to walk behind men, unable to drive .... shall I go on? It's a culture thing some would say.
Still is a horrific tragedy ... those poor families left behind.

[momckee]

I posted this on Facebook tonight and have to say I am really heartbroken about the shooting today at the Florida school. Seems like this happens too often.

"Had written a long post about the US gun culture then deleted it - I was really angry when I was typing it, but I realized I would just be whistling in the wind. People are sad and everyone says the right things but not one change is ever enacted. Come on US - do something about this tragedy, 4 school shootings already this year. Children shooting children. It's insane."

I realize that there is little I can do about this as I have no legal standing in the US - I would certainly be ranting on to our government if this sort of situation was ongoing. Surely someone, somewhere can enact some legislation to stop the massacre of the school children!

[momckee]

I'm neither Republican nor Democrat although leaning towards Liberal but I have to say I'm delighted that Mr. Jones beat Mr. Moore in the Alabama election. I didn't care at all for Mr. Moore and when he came out after the election not conceding the result and then quoting Bible verse I thought he seemed to me to be saying that God would put it right. I guess I believed the women who spoke out against him and maybe Alabama would do o.k. with Mr. Jones who seems to want to do things right for his State. I hope he does.

[4AMNTN]

I agree. This "it happened in the 70's-80's, blah blah".... Unless it was a CRIME ... and it should have been reported on THEN.

[momckee]

Good thinking Meg.

[Meg]

It seems as though whatever Al Franken was accused of happened about 8 to 10 years ago before he became a Senator and unless I'm mistaken he was not accused of anything recently. Was how he might have behaved be part of the then culture and he behaved himself when he became part of the political establishment. It's all very puzzling. Whatever it's all about I'm sick and tired of all the carryon surrounding politics.

And that's why I mostly ignore all this stuff and watch home improvement shows

[momckee]

It seems as though whatever Al Franken was accused of happened about 8 to 10 years ago before he became a Senator and unless I'm mistaken he was not accused of anything recently. Was how he might have behaved be part of the then culture and he behaved himself when he became part of the political establishment. It's all very puzzling. Whatever it's all about I'm sick and tired of all the carryon surrounding politics.

[4AMNTN]

Love the implication there. U steal u get a finger severed
Eye for an eye you know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[YB]

This has been going on in the UK for the past three or four years. Literally dozens of famous (or in some cases those who like to think they are famous) names have been arrested over things that "allegedly" happened in the 70's/80's. After trials which last for weeks and cost a fortune only about three/four have been convicted. Basically after all that time there is no reliable evidence, just one persons word against another.

It is strange that only "famous" people are accused. If I think back then I was probably guilty of touching the odd girls knee 40/50 years ago. I've never been accused, perhaps because I'm a nobody.

I agree that what was acceptable years ago is no longer due to political correctness. Plus also if it is reported now the police have no alternative to investigate. Over the past three years our local police have used up one third of their manpower and one third of their resources looking into historical abuse cases. Meanwhile those doing the dirty deeds now are getting away with it because the police haven't time to thoroughly look into the current cases

I also agree that full blown forced sex is not acceptable and anyone found guilty of this should be severely punished, with the punishment drastically increased for repeat offender.

If stories are to be believed hundreds of years ago people caught stealing had finger(s) chopped off. Obvious solution for serial sex offenders

[Style]

Predatory and bullying behavior of any kind should be dealt with seriously. In the back of my mind, though, I wonder if we're trending toward standards of conduct that will have the majority of people accused of improprieties or worse at some point. I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone's behavior, but clearly standards of what is acceptable or tolerated have shifted and continue to shift, which is ironic when you consider most of the very popular shows and movies deal with exactly the sort of behavior that often encourages people to act out inappropriately or even in a criminal way. As kids many of us enjoyed Pepe LePew cartoons (the amorous skunk from Looney Tunes). We were indoctrinated to laugh at the female cat's discomfort and feel sorry for Pepe because he was just looking for love. He'd be labeled a sex offender and be locked up in today's world. Or maybe you girls didn't think those cartoons were funny, I don't know. Today female cartoonists could claim sexual harassment if they were assigned to work on such a cartoon.

[Meg]

I'm with you Dan...we have shows, movies (remember The Graduate? perseverance gets the girl) and books that promote that behavior with a 'good' outcome (boy wins girl). And then we expect different behavior IRL. I believe something should be said when it happens or let it go. I understand that if your pay depends on it, it's a touchy situation, but as I told my boss when it was brought up about Matt Lauer...I like this job but if something like that was happening I would say something...and if nothing was done about it & I lost my job...well I was looking for this job when I found it...there's another out there. Easier to say now that I have a tiny bit of $$ saved up but if you're paycheck to paycheck it may be tough to take a stand.

[momckee]

Every day there is a new allegation about some celebrity and some seem a bit odd - why wait so long to say anything although Roy Moore seems like a bit of a creep? I guess it just takes one person to be brave enough to speak out and that starts the ball rolling. I can understand a woman who is dependent on her pay cheque being afraid to say anything about a boss who is getting a bit touchy, feely and it shouldn't be that way but I really can't understand anyone submitting to actual intercourse which really would be rape. That would be a case for the police not for management. I guess unless you are in the situation it's hard to understand. A pinch on the bum requires a slap and that should be sufficient, I would think and a warning not to try it again. However, every case is different I guess.